Densely Speaking is a podcast about cities, economics, and law, hosted by Jeffrey Lin and Greg Shill.
About the Podcast
Densely Speaking explores the intersection of urban economics, law, and policy. We interview leading researchers about topics including housing, transportation, zoning, gentrification, and the past and future of cities.
The conversations tend to cover evergreen topics, so most episodes from our back catalog remain timely and relevant. They are suitable for both casual listeners and academic audiences. New episodes are released periodically.
Season 4 (2024-2025)
Guest: Sara Bagagli (London School of Economics)
Sara Bagagli is an Assistant Professor of Real Estate Economics and Finance at London School of Economics and Political Science. Her 2023 paper, "The (Express)Way to Segregation: Evidence from Chicago," examines how expressways contributed to racial segregation in Chicago through local price and amenity effects and barrier effects. She constructs a structural urban model to study the link between urban barriers and racial preferences in shaping the allocation of people across space.
Guest: Zach Liscow (Yale Law School)
Zach Liscow is Professor of Law at Yale Law School. From 2022-23, he was the Chief Economist at the White House Office of Management and Budget. He discusses his article "Procurement and Infrastructure Costs" (with William Nober and Cailin Slattery), which collects new project-level data and surveys of state DOT officials to document variation in infrastructure procurement costs across states and identify cost drivers, including capacity and competition.
Guest: Erick Guerra (University of Pennsylvania)
Erick Guerra is a Professor and Associate Dean for Research at the University of Pennsylvania Weitzman School of Design. He discusses his article "Urban Roadway in America: The Amount, Extent, and Value" (with Gilles Duranton & Xinyu Ma), which provides the first comprehensive estimate of the amount, share, and value of roadways across over 300 U.S. metro areas.
Guest: David Schleicher (Yale Law School)
David Schleicher is the Walter E. Meyer Professor of Property and Urban Law at Yale Law School. He is the author of "In a Bad State: Responding to State and Local Budget Crises" and co-hosts the podcast Digging a Hole with YLS colleague Samuel Moyn.
Guest: Dionissi Aliprantis (Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland)
Dionissi Aliprantis is an assistant vice president and senior research economist at the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland, director of the Bank's Program on Economic Inclusion, and founding director of the Math Movement. He discusses neighborhood formation and neighborhood effects.
Guest: Jonathan Rose (Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago)
Jonathan Rose is the Historian of the Federal Reserve System and senior economist and economic advisor at the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago. He is the co-author of "Blockbusting and the Challenges Faced by Black Families in Building Wealth through Housing in the Postwar United States" (with Daniel Hartley).
Guests: Sara Bronin (Cornell University) and Scott Markley
Sara Bronin is Professor at the Cornell University College of Architecture, Art, and Planning and Chair of the Advisory Council on Historic Preservation, and is the Director of the National Zoning Atlas. Scott Markley is the Geospatial Project Coordinator at the National Zoning Atlas and a visiting professor at Cornell. They discuss this groundbreaking project to map and standardize zoning information across the United States.
Season 3 (2023)
Guest: Clay Gillette (New York University School of Law)
Clay Gillette is the Max E. Greenberg Professor of Contract Law at NYU School of Law. He is the author of "Remote Work and City Decline: Lessons from the Garment District."
Guest: James Siodla (Colby College)
James Siodla is an Associate Professor of Economics at Colby College. He discusses his research on the 1906 San Francisco disaster and its impact on business agglomeration.
Guest: Molly Brady (Harvard Law School)
Molly Brady is the Louis D. Brandeis Professor of Law at Harvard Law School. She is the author of "Turning Neighbors into Nuisances."
Guest: Lindsay Relihan (Purdue University)
Lindsay Relihan is an Assistant Professor of Economics at Purdue University. She is the author of "The Impact of Work-from-Home on Brick-and-Mortar Retail Establishments: Evidence from Card Transactions."
Guest: Andra Ghent (University of Utah)
Andra Ghent is Professor of Finance at the University of Utah David Eccles School of Business. She is the author of "The Work-from-Home Technology Boon and Its Consequences" (with Morris A. Davis and Jesse Gregory), discussing how work from home technology has affected cities and commercial real estate markets.
Guest: Stijn Van Nieuwerburgh (Columbia University)
Stijn Van Nieuwerburgh is the Earle W. Kazis and Benjamin Schore Professor of Real Estate and Professor of Finance at Columbia University's Graduate School of Business. He is the author of "Work From Home and the Office Real Estate Apocalypse" (joint with Arpit Gupta and Vrinda Mittal), discussing the impact of remote work on urban real estate markets and city dynamics.
Season 2 (2021-2022)
Season 2 featured a special series on History and Urban Economics, plus individual episodes on housing, transportation, and local policy.
Guests: Ed Glaeser (Harvard), Leah Brooks (George Washington University), Ting Chen (Hong Kong Baptist University), David Nagy (CREI), Yanos Zylberberg (University of Bristol), Jason Barr (Rutgers-Newark)
The third and final installment in a series based on a special issue on Urban Economics and History in Regional Science and Urban Economics. Contains short conversations on topics including learning from the urban past, ghost transit, war shocks and spatial development, and tall buildings.
Guests: Brian Beach (Vanderbilt), Dan Bogart (UC Irvine), Robert Margo (Boston University), Alexander Whalley (Calgary), Katherine Eriksson (UC Davis), Allison Shertzer (Pittsburgh)
Part two of the series features conversations on water infrastructure and health, institutions, industrialization and urbanization, geography of innovation, immigration, and zoning and segregation in urban economic history.
Guests: Walker Hanlon (Northwestern), Stephan Heblich (University of Toronto), Maarten Bosker (Erasmus University Rotterdam), Noel Johnson (George Mason), Treb Allen (Dartmouth)
First in a three-part series based on a special issue on Urban Economics and History. Contains short conversations on topics including city origins, medieval cities, persistence and path dependence, and the future of history dependence in spatial economics.
Guest: Evan Mast (Notre Dame)
Guest Co-host: Kate Pennington (U.S. Census Bureau)
Evan Mast discusses his paper examining the local effects of large new apartment buildings in low-income areas. Kate Pennington, author of "Does New Housing Cause Displacement?: The Supply and Demand Effects of Construction in San Francisco," joins as guest co-host.
Guests: Nestor Davidson (Fordham Law), Richard Schragger (UVA Law), David Schleicher (Yale Law)
A debate on the National League of Cities' Principles of Home Rule for the 21st Century and whether local governments have too much power.
Guest: Diego Puga (CEMFI Madrid)
Diego Puga is Professor of Economics at CEMFI in Madrid, Spain. He shares his ten favorite urban economics papers published in 2021, discussing their contributions to the field.
Guest: Peter Norton (University of Virginia)
Peter Norton is an associate professor of history at UVA. He is the author of "Autonorama: The Illusory Promise of High-Tech Driving," "Fighting Traffic: The Dawn of the Motor Age in the American City," and "Persistent Pedestrianism."
Guest: Marcus Casey (University of Illinois Chicago)
Guest Co-host: Leah Brooks (George Washington University)
Marcus Casey discusses his research on the evolution of Black neighborhoods since the Kerner Commission Report. Leah Brooks joins to discuss her work on the long-run impact of the 1968 Washington, DC Civil Disturbance.
Guests: Matt Kahn (USC) and Mac McComas (Johns Hopkins 21st Century Cities Initiative)
Matt Kahn and Mac McComas discuss their book "Unlocking the Potential of Post-Industrial Cities," examining how struggling cities can revitalize and adapt.
Guest: Cailin Slattery (Columbia Business School)
Guest Co-host: David Agrawal (University of Kentucky)
Cailin Slattery discusses her paper "Bidding for Firms: Subsidy Competition in the U.S." examining how states and localities compete for businesses through tax incentives and subsidies.
Guests: Rebecca Sanders (Safe Streets Research), Robert Schneider (UW-Milwaukee), Tara Goddard (Texas A&M), Kelcie Ralph (Rutgers)
First episode in Season 2. A panel of transportation researchers discuss fatal pedestrian crashes, traffic safety, and the role of infrastructure design in preventing deaths.
Season 1 (2020-2021)
Guest: Beth Osborne (Transportation for America)
Keynote address from the Future of Law & Transportation Symposium.
Guests: Pamela Foohey (Indiana University-Bloomington Maurer School of Law) and Randall Johnson (Mississippi College School of Law)
Part of the Transportation Law Symposium series. Pamela Foohey discusses "Bursting the Auto Loan Bubble in the Wake of COVID-19" and Randall Johnson discusses "Why Illinois Should Eliminate Its Video Tolling Subsidy." Moderated by Audrey McFarlane (University of Baltimore Law).
Guests: Janice Griffith (Suffolk University), Noah Kazis (NYU Furman Center), Kenneth Stahl (Chapman University), and Darien Shanske & Deb Niemeier (UC Davis)
Part of the Transportation Law Symposium series covering transportation planning and land use, including discussions of metropolitan planning organizations, hyper-localism, land use curriculum, and tax districts.
Guests: Clayton Nall (UC Santa Barbara), Deborah Archer (NYU School of Law), and Daniel Rodriguez (Northwestern Pritzker School of Law)
Part of the Transportation Law Symposium series. A critical look at transportation policy and inequality, including discussions of political constraints, the underdevelopment of Black communities, and the problem of escape.
Guests: David Prytherch (Miami University), Jamila Jefferson-Jones (University of Missouri-Kansas City School of Law), Tara Goddard (Texas A&M University), and Vanessa Casado Pérez (Texas A&M University School of Law)
Part of the Transportation Law Symposium series. Discusses mobility justice and the public right-of-way, #DrivingWhileBlack, the language and framing of transportation safety, and pedestrianization.
Guest: Arpit Gupta (NYU Stern)
Guest Co-host: Chris Severen (Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia)
Arpit Gupta, Assistant Professor of Finance at NYU Stern, is co-author of "Take the Q Train: Value Capture of Public Infrastructure Projects." Chris Severen, Senior Economist at the Philadelphia Federal Reserve Bank and author of papers on transit economics, joins as guest co-host.
Guests: Jonathan Levine (University of Michigan), Audrey McFarlane (University of Baltimore School of Law), and Sara Bronin (UConn Law)
Part of the Transportation Law Symposium series. Discusses transportation policy entrenchment, Black mobility and the refusal of funds, and the failed federalism of street and vehicle design standards.
Guest: Michelle Layser (University of Illinois Chicago School of Law)
Guest Co-host: Cailin Slattery (Columbia Business School)
Michelle Layser, Assistant Professor of Law at the University of Illinois College of Law, discusses her paper "How Place-Based Tax Incentives Can Reduce Geographic Inequality." Cailin Slattery, Assistant Professor of Business at Columbia Business School, joins as guest co-host.
Guest: Devin Michelle Bunten (MIT)
Guest Co-host: Katherine Levine Einstein (Boston University)
Devin Michelle Bunten, Edward H. and Joyce Linde Assistant Professor of Urban Economics and Housing at MIT, discusses her paper "People or Parking?" (joint with Lyndsey Rolheiser). Katherine Levine Einstein, Associate Professor of Political Science at Boston University, joins as guest co-host.
Guest: Jonathan Rodden (Stanford University)
Guest Co-host: Ari Stern (Washington University in St. Louis)
Jonathan Rodden, Professor of Political Science at Stanford University, discusses his book "Why Cities Lose: The Deep Roots of the Urban-Rural Political Divide," exploring the geographic distribution of political power. Ari Stern, Associate Professor of Mathematics and Statistics at Washington University in St. Louis, joins as guest co-host.
Guest: Katherine Levine Einstein (Boston University)
Guest Co-host: Michael Hankinson (George Washington University)
Katherine Levine Einstein, Associate Professor of Political Science at Boston University, discusses her book "Neighborhood Defenders: Participatory Politics and America's Housing Crisis" (co-authored with David Glick and Maxwell Palmer). Michael Hankinson, Assistant Professor of Political Science at George Washington University, joins as guest co-host.
Guests: Ganesh Sitaraman (Vanderbilt Law), Morgan Ricks (Vanderbilt Law), and Chris Serkin (Vanderbilt Law)
Guest Co-host: Michelle Layser (University of Illinois College of Law)
Professors Ganesh Sitaraman, Morgan Ricks, and Chris Serkin discuss how various forms of regulation contribute to geographic inequality and the legal frameworks that shape urban and regional development. Michelle Layser, Assistant Professor at the University of Illinois College of Law, joins as guest co-host.
Guest: Allison Shertzer (University of Pittsburgh)
Guest Co-host: Devin Michelle Bunten (MIT)
Allison Shertzer, Associate Professor in the Department of Economics at the University of Pittsburgh, discusses her paper "Racial Segregation in Housing Markets and the Erosion of Black Wealth" (joint with Prottoy A. Akbar, Sijie Li, and Randall P. Walsh). Devin Michelle Bunten joins as guest co-host.
Guest: Conrad Ciccotello (University of Denver)
Conrad Ciccotello, director of and professor at the Reiman School of Finance in the Daniels College of Business at the University of Denver, discusses his paper "Gender and Geography in the Boardroom: What Really Matters for Board Decisions?" (joint with Zinat Alam, Mark Chen, and Harley Ryan).
Guest: Leah Brooks (George Washington University)
Guest Co-host: Jenny Schuetz (Brookings Institution)
Leah Brooks discusses her working paper on infrastructure costs (joint with Zachary Liscow of Yale Law School), examining why infrastructure projects in the United States have become increasingly expensive.
Introduction episode for the podcast.